LAURA JAYES, HOST: In the meantime, the Prime Minister is preparing to reshuffle his cabinet. This is following the retirement of two senior ministers. You saw that on the program yesterday, Linda Burney and Brendan O'Connor are out. Who is on their way in? Joining me now is the Assistant Trade and Manufacturing Minister Tim Ayres. You in line for a promotion?
SENATOR TIM AYRES, ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR TRADE AND MANUFACTURING: Laura G'day. Just let me do this first, and that is, I mean, your viewers got to watch the press conference yesterday. It really was a press conference where the conference reflected reality. It was good people who really like each other. You know, Linda Burney and Brendan O'Connor have been friends of mine for a long time, but have had years of public service, of putting the public interest before their own with a Prime Minister who's been their friend for a long time. It was beautiful to watch, and it reflected the kind of government that we are working so hard to be, where it's collegiality, the caucus processes and our approach to the being the kind of Westminster Government that Australia needs was really reflected yesterday.
JAYES: And the time taken to pay tribute to their legacy, because that amount of time in service to the public is certainly a big commitment, and you hear this all the time, but families often take a back seat. They do often. So, my tribute to them both, absolutely. But have you got the phone call?
AYRES: So, the first thing to say is, of course, this is a matter for the caucus. The Prime Minister -
JAYES: Should be a matter for the Prime Minister, shouldn't it?
AYRES: The Prime Minister has made that very clear,
JAYES: Matter for the factions. You mean.
AYRES: Well, there are all of the processes that are normally engaged. We are a caucus that is batting very deep in terms of capability and capacity, got a very strong ministry, very strong ministry, the most experienced ministry to come to government, and within the caucus, there's dozens of colleagues who have very strong capability, very strong capacity. So, I'm very confident that the outcome that the caucus, or that the caucus processes will produce, and that the Prime Minister will announce on Sunday will be a very good outcome.
JAYES: So have those discussions already been had. Have they started?
AYRES: Well, normally, colleagues talk to each other in these kinds of situations,
JAYES: Who are you talking to? What are they saying?
AYRES: Can I just say that it's very collegial.
JAYES: Well, that's very nice. But can you answer my question? What are those conversations about?
AYRES: Well, that you've asked me these kind of questions in other contexts.
JAYES: And you don't like to answer them.
AYRES: Well, it's just that I'm very dull, Laura, and the truth is, that I don't talk about the internal politics.
JAYES: Sure, sure.
AYRES: But it's true. I think I've been pretty consistent on that.
JAYES: Are you more suited to skills or defence. Do you think?
AYRES: In what sense?
JAYES: Well, if you were to get a promotion? I mean, are you saying you don't think you deserve a promotion because you're too dull?
AYRES: No, no. Do you know what I do? You know what I'm absolutely focused on? I was delighted at the beginning of 2022, surprised and delighted to be appointed to doing the assistant manufacturing and trade minister role.
JAYES: So, you don't want to go anywhere?
AYRES: We have got the biggest. That's right. That's right.
JAYES: You want to stay where you are.
AYRES: My focus right now is on a Future Made in Australia, and Australia’s trade agenda to build the future economy. We have got the biggest pro-manufacturing package in Australian history. That’s what I care about. I came from the manufacturing sector. I care about those communities and building the right capability, building our energy security, building our manufacturing, building our future capability; and the spillover benefits that has in the areas where I spent most of my time as a manufacturing union official- in the Hunter Valley and the Illawarra and Sydney’s outer suburbs. The spillover benefits in terms of good jobs for those communities are immense. This is an opportunity to bring investment and good manufacturing jobs roaring back in the Hunter Valley, in the Illawarra, Central Queensland, Western Australia. I’m deadly serious, that is what I’m focused on.
JAYES: How much government money is being wasted on green hydrogen?
AYRES: No, nothing's wasted here.
JAYES: I think it is. Twiggy is pulling out.
AYRES: This is the opportunity for Australia in each of these areas.
JAYES: Are you still saying that green hydrogen is something you're going to pour more money into?
AYRES: Well, green hydrogen is where the world is going.
JAYES: No, it's not. Andrew Forrest just sacked 700 people.
AYRES: The decisions that Andrew Forrest makes are a matter for him and for his commercial decision -
JAYES: So that has no effect on what the government does. Are you saying?
AYRES: These are no regrets measures here, right? No regrets measures, production tax credits that the company can only become eligible for them-
JAYES: Yes, sure
AYRES: - When they are producing hydrogen or green iron-
JAYES: You're not wasting money if they're producing it. But what about the money that from the previous government as well and your government has put into helping these businesses get off the ground? It's $100 million alone in New South Wales.
AYRES: Unapologetically, for Australian manufacturing in the -
JAYES: I know, but green hydrogen is a pipe dream at this point. If you have someone like Andrew Forrest pulling out and saying, it's not commercially viable and he's not going to make money out of essentially, why? Why would the government not change path just a little bit?
AYRES: That is the opposite of what Andrew has said. I've listened to what Andrew said about the decision making. He is making some changes that suit his business. I can tell you the interest from the investment community and big manufacturers around the world on the pathway to net zero. Green hydrogen is a big part of that. Our solar and wind capability and our capacity for storage is a big part of that. Our resources under the ground, our minerals-
JAYES: Wind has been underperforming. Does that concern you?
AYRES: No, it doesn't. What it does mean is that we need to keep cracking on with the job that Chris Bowen set out for us. That and of course, what that set of statistics means is number one, this garbage from David Littleproud that we need to - I think what he said sweat our coal assets. I mean, you would only say that if you'd never been to any of our coal fired power stations that are struggling. Over the last 365 days, there has not been a single day, not a single day, where one of these operations has not had to close because of a maintenance failure. The cheapest energy in the system, wind, solar and storage.
JAYES: Well, it's not cheap when gas has -
AYRES: And let me come to gas.
JAYES: We're running out of time,
AYRES: Let me come to gas. Wind and solar. More of those cheaper prices. Gas is really important. It is a really important -
JAYES: Especially when wind isn't performing.
AYRES: In terms of in terms of power, terms of grid stability over time, and particularly for the industrial processes in the big energy intensive firms, as we move towards cleaner power, it is absolutely our pathway, and it is part of the pathway for our closest partners, Korea, Japan, right across the Asian region, as they decarbonise Australian gas is really important.
JAYES: All right, a few points you've made that we'll have to pick up next time, but great to see you. Sorry for the interruptions. We'll talk to you on Monday and see what kind of new job you're in.
ENDS.
