KYLIE MORRIS, HOST: Tim Ayres is the Assistant Trade Minister and Assistant Minister for a Future Made in Australia. Welcome back, Tim, to Radio National Breakfast.

SENATOR, TIM AYRES: It's good to be on the show and good to be on the show with you, Kylie.

HOST: Now, what do you make of the language coming from the incoming American President, you know, using economic force, I think is a direct quote from him, to absorb Canada into the U.S. for example?

AYRES: Well, it's in Australia's interest, of course, to advocate and to work hard with our bilateral partners and in the world trading system for a rules-based trade system that means that trade is predictable. It's in our interest to advocate for access to markets for Australian businesses. That's what the Albanese government will continue to do bilaterally directly with our friends in the United States but also in the global trading system because trade exposed firms in Australia employ one in four Australian workers. Firms that export overseas generate better jobs and better pay. We are absolutely focused on delivering, as we have done, over the course of the last three years on expanding Australia's trade relationships with the world and fighting for market access for Australian firms and Australian workers.

HOST: Tim, I take your point that it's your job or the government's job to advocate for a rules based system, but you need a reliable partner for that and given what's coming out of the incoming president, I mean, how concerned should those, as you describe them, very valuable Australian economy exporters be about the return of Donald Trump to the White House?

AYRES: Well, the most important thing here is discipline and being calm and focused on what is in the national interest and not to, despite your invitation, Kylie, not being commentators about these things, but being focused actually on our job, which is to deliver for Australian exporters and to deliver for Australian exporters, for Australian workers because that's where the good jobs are. Now there'll be ebbs and flows around these issues. Our job is to work hard with all of our partners, right across the system to deliver a strong, robust global trading environment, because that's in the national interest.

HOST: What's the Australian government doing to prepare for the economic impact of Donald Trump's promised trade war with China? I mean, our economy would very obviously be affected, wouldn't it? Any slowdown of China's, wouldn't it?

AYRES: Well, whatever happens globally, all of Australia's resources, our trade resources, our foreign affairs resources, are being deployed as there's been very strong commentary, whether it's in Washington or Europe or with all of our trading partners, to advocate for Australia's interest. We'll continue to do that. We'll continue to do that in the same focused way that we have over the last couple of years. Not chasing headlines in Australia, which is what the last government did, put politics and partisanship before the national interest. The difference with the Albanese government, you've seen this with the approach that the Prime Minister's taken, the Foreign Minister and the Trade Minister have taken is just been utterly disciplined and focused on the national interests, not the partisan interest. Not chasing headlines, but being focused on Australia and Australians.

HOST: Tim, we just heard on AM about Australia's winemakers re entering the Chinese market. They say it's been a fairly subdued re entry. Does the government need to step up support for that industry?

AYRES: Well, that's certainly what was predicted, the impediments put in place of Australian wine exports to China. There had been decades of investment by the Australian wine industry and by Australian governments, principally through Austrade, in marketing Australian wine. Now it's a very popular product in China, particularly premium Australian wine. We're going to continue to support those businesses and continue to support the industry. It was a very significant step in the last half of last year to see China remove the formal impediments to Australian wine exports. Of course, the industry's, you know, some damage has been done. The industry has got a lot of work in front of it and they will be supported by the government to rebuild their markets now that excess has returned.

HOST: So just briefly, Tim, how would you characterise Australia's relationship with China now heading into this year?

AYRES: Well, it's a relationship that'll be characterised by some important differences, but it's a relationship that we believe, and the Albanese government has pursued this approach, that it's a relationship that it's important that there be continued dialogue and it's important that Australia continue to calmly and consistently assert its national interest. That's what will occur under an Albanese government. We will back in Australia, Australians and the Australian national interest in a calm and consistent way. That's, I think, what Australians should expect from their government. Not partisanship, not being blowhards about these issues, but being focused on the national interest and navigating those differences calmly and wisely.

HOST: This is Radio National Breakfast. Tim Ayres is our guest, the Assistant Trade Minister and Assistant Minister for the future Made in Australia project. Can we come on to interest rate, Tim? We'll be speaking later with the ACTU. The council is demanding a rate cut at the next meeting. It says interest rates are smashing household finances and the RBA is ignoring worrying warning signs in the economy. You're a former union leader. Are your colleagues right about the RBA?

AYRES: Well, it's our job as a government to play our part in the fight against inflation, not to give the independent Reserve Bank of Australia lectures. The ACTU and others in the community are absolutely entitled and the economics community, you've seen some criticism and debate that is completely proper. The government's job is to play our part. For our part, we've worked hard on the fiscal side to deliver two budget surpluses in a row designed to reduce pressure on inflation and put downward pressure on inflation. Of course, all of the measures that the government's undertaken, whether it's in household energy bill support, childcare, Medicare, all of those areas of cost reduction to support families through inflation and to put downward pressure on interest rates. We are doing our job as a government. There is more work to do. We've made substantial progress, but of course there's more work to do and interest rates are a matter for the Reserve Bank and the Reserve Bank Board.

HOST: And just finally, Peter Dutton wants a debate with the Prime Minister on nuclear energy, should there be one?

AYRES: Well, there'll be plenty of opportunities for debate and discussion. The central point here, a lot of focus has been on the impact on households. $1,200 extra every year, so households having to find $300 or $400 at the end of every quarter to pay electricity bills. My focus,  is in the manufacturing sector and Peter Dutton's own modelling. His own basic assumptions say that electricity use for large scale industry in Australia will halve. That means electricity intensive industry being forced offshore, aluminium, steel in areas like Central Queensland, the Hunter Valley, Illawarra, manufacturing being forced offshore and good jobs being lost, apprenticeship opportunities gone. This is the government that forced the auto industry offshore in its last term of government and now it wants to kill Australian heavy industry. Well, I am determined to fight against that attack on Australian manufacturing in every industrial region and out of suburban Australia because it's wrong, it's against the national interest and it's going to kill decent blue collar jobs.

HOST: But Tim, as the Business Council, for example, has expressed reservations about the coalition, but both the Australian industry group and the Chamber of Commerce and Industry have welcomed a debate about adding nuclear to the energy mix. Surely you wouldn't argue that those groups are interested in jeopardising Australian industry or manufacturing, would you?

AYRES: Well, I can tell you I'm getting a clear message from electricity and energy intensive industry that Peter Dutton's nuclear reactor plan is bonkers and it will cost jobs. It will push up bills for businesses and for households. It will cost jobs in electricity and energy intensive industry in a big way. This is the biggest threat to Australian manufacturing that we face. A newly elected Dutton government. From the outset this plan would deliver, not just deterring investment in Australian industry and Australian manufacturing and frustrating the industry. Your listeners want to see manufacturing get bigger and a return of Australian manufacturing for all of the right reasons. And Peter Dutton's plan spells a death knell for energy intensive and electricity intensive industry in Australia.

HOST: Tim Ayres, we'll have to leave it there but thanks so much for joining us on the show.

AYRES: Thanks, Kylie.

ENDS.