SALLY SARA, HOST: Tim Ayres is the Federal Minister for Industry and Innovation, the Minister for Science and Senator for NSW. Minister, welcome back to Radio National Breakfast.
SENATOR TIM AYRES, MINISTER FOR INDUSTRY AND INNOVATION AND MINISTER FOR SCIENCE: G'day, Sally. It's good to be on the show
HOST: How important is it to the country that any successful buyer of the Steelworks build a new furnace?
AYRES: Well, it's certainly important that there be a pit-to-port capability here, which means ironmaking and steelmaking as well as the mining operation. And we're working diligently with the South Australian Government since this intervention. It was a very dramatic intervention at the time. The Malinauskas and Albanese Governments working together to put this facility into administration. We are working through these issues in an orderly way to make sure that steelmaking's got a bright future in Whyalla.
HOST: How much government money has already been spent trying to fix the old furnace?
AYRES: Well, there's certainly been not just allocations of money from the Commonwealth and State Governments as we fund the administration, but also the human effort that's been required here. I don't think many of your listeners would know, living in the cities would find it hard to appreciate the effort, the collective effort that has gone in from hundreds of people trying to sustain this –
HOST: That’s appreciated. But to go back to the question, how much taxpayer, government money has already been spent trying to fix the old furnace?
AYRES: Oh, in terms of fixing the old furnace? It would be many millions of dollars have gone into –
HOST: Do you know the number?
AYRES: No, I don't have the number pulled out of the funding for the administration because the administration supports all the workers' wages as well and it's pretty hard I think to disaggregate that expenditure –
HOST: So, the government doesn't know how much money, taxpayer money was spent trying to fix the furnace?
AYRES: There have been hundreds of safety and engineering failures as a consequence of the previous owner's maladministration and underinvestment. It has been all hands to the pump here since February and in particular, over the last 6 months or so. These efforts around the blast furnace, everybody knew that there wasn't a forever future for the blast furnace. This has been a heroic effort.
HOST: To go back to this one more time. Have you been informed of the cost to governments, both State and Federal, in this intervention of trying to fix the blast furnace? Has that number been broken down or provided to you?
AYRES: Well, as I say, it is hard to disaggregate that figure from all of the other efforts –
HOST: I'm asking if you have got the number.
AYRES: No, I don't have the number today.
HOST: Have you been provided it previously?
AYRES: We'll work through these issues. Very happy to account for over time the different expenditures that have gone in, that has been led by the administrator. They have to make judgments about these questions –
HOST: But just to be clear, you haven't been providing that number –
AYRES: I think I've been very clear. I think I've been very clear that we are not in a position today to put a dollar figure. We of course are engaged through the joint taskforce that works with the administrator on the kind of decisions that are necessary to sustain this plant and to sustain iron and steelmaking.
HOST: The Australian Industry Group CEO Innes Willox says that this development is, quote: “Another stark reminder to governments and regulators that they must stop making it increasingly difficult for Australian businesses to invest, grow and compete”, saying the country needs critical industry capability to stand on its own two feet. Do you agree?
AYRES: I think it's really important and important to be respectful of what's happened here in Whyalla. The blast furnace failure has got nothing to do with yesterday, Matt Canavan and Andrew Hastie pointing to energy prices as a problem with the blast furnace. It's got nothing to do with that. It's got nothing to do with the regulatory framework. It's got everything to do with the previous owner who has under invested in that facility. I think what happened yesterday with Matt Canavan and Andrew Hastie trying to apply sort of politics to this was pretty disrespectful. I was shocked.
HOST: Disrespectful to whom?
AYRES: Disrespectful to the workers who have been engaged in this effort and disrespectful to the truth. It's actually time that if people, if Canberra Liberal and National and One Nation politicians weren't so anxious to blame everything on the Government's strategy to deliver lower emissions – which we were elected to do – and actually listened to people in Whyalla and actually went there from time to time. What they did yesterday was utterly shocking and just showed how partisan and out of touch they've become.
HOST: Is it fair that there is some criticism? Because there have been failures in that strategy, particularly in this area of South Australia. I'm thinking of the hydrogen project. I think the auditor found in South Australia about a quarter of a billion dollars was invested in that before the pin was pulled. That's fair criticism, isn't it?
AYRES: I think it's fair when criticism has some relationship to the truth.
HOST: Did it fail?
AYRES: Focus on what this is all about, Sally. The blast furnace is being closed because the previous owner had run it into the ground.
HOST: You were talking earlier about the overall policy of going to renewables and so on, is that right?
AYRES: Well, that's right. That's how we scope out a future for steelmaking in Whyalla. There's no future in going backwards in technological terms. There's a future in making sure that we've got the optimum technologies, modern technologies that support steelmaking and ironmaking in that region to build Australia's overall industrial capability. That's why this intervention was so important. And Liberal and National politicians pointing to energy policy, which has got zero to do with what happened yesterday, is disrespectful. These guys like to stick on a high vis vest before a press conference, but they don't wear one every day. These workers, hundreds of them, have been throwing themselves at this task in a superhuman effort, which is, in my view, heroic. We should be respectful of that.
HOST: Do you wear a high vis vest?
AYRES: Of course, I put on a high vis vest from time to time when it's required but I'm there in Whyalla listening to workers, listening to unions, listening to the subcontractors, working through the issues in a practical, pragmatic way with the South Australian Government to chart a future for that facility. That's what is respectful.
HOST: You're listening to Radio National Breakfast. My guest is the Minister for Industry and Innovation, Tim Ayres. Speaking at an Australian Strategic Policy Institute event yesterday, the Shadow Minister for Industry and Sovereign Capability, Andrew Hastie, was talking about the need for a sovereign AI frontier model here in Australia. Do you agree that Australia needs one?
AYRES: Well, what I agree with is that as we look at the Future Made in Australia objectives, where do we have competitive advantage and capability? Where do we need these capabilities for resilience? And that means Australia shaping the future and shaping the technology and being the indispensable country in our region and with our partners on artificial intelligence technology. So, we're delivering the technology here on Australia's terms.
HOST: Just finally, One Nation announced its immigration policy yesterday, cuts to international students as well as families of skilled migrants. Which sectors of the economy would be most vulnerable to those kinds of cuts?
AYRES: Well, this is what happens when you do policy for social media clicks. If implemented, this would be a wrecking ball through regional economies. It would hurt the agriculture sector, it would hurt the hospitality and the aged care sectors. In particular, it would be devastating for tourism in Northern Australia. This Government has been focused on training young Australians. Free TAFE is really important, focusing on what we can do in bush communities in particular, give people skills, but also fixing our migration system and repairing the damage that was done. There is more work to do and there will be more to say about these issues. But what Pauline Hanson and One Nation have announced recently would devastate regional economies and there would be a real human cost to that.
HOST: Tim Ayres, thank you very much for coming in this morning.
AYRES: Thanks, Sally.
