SALLY SARA, HOST: A helpful friend or a destructive foe? How to exactly label artificial intelligence remains a hotly contested issue. This week, Australia's newly appointed Minister for Industry, Innovation and Science, Tim Ayres, has urged the nation to lean in to AI to shape the digital future. But in the face of rapidly evolving technology, how can Australia get ahead?

Senator Tim Ayres joins me now. Minister, welcome back to Radio National Breakfast.

SENATOR TIM AYRES, MINISTER FOR INDUSTRY AND INNOVATION AND MINISTER FOR SCIENCE: Thanks, Sally. Really good to be on the show.

SARA: What do you think needs to happen in terms of having an AI Act? What should it do?

AYRES: Well, my starting point with all of this in terms of the bracket of technologies that we call artificial intelligence and the digital economy more broadly, is that I'm seized of the opportunity for Australia in economic growth terms and what a powerful contribution this can be in terms of productivity growth through the Australian economy. Whether it's investment in digital infrastructure like data centres, whether it's the growth of our technology sector broadly from AI through to quantum, where Australia has leading advantages. But also diffusion - technology adoption and diffusion through Australian workplaces. This is a really important contribution to the productivity agenda and really important contribution to our plan for economic growth.

We are, of course, as you say, going to have to attend carefully to managing risks and harms, you know, potential risks, potential harms. And the government is going to be thoughtful and deliberate about how we approach that. Of course, as you can imagine, engaged in detailed briefings about all of these issues and working carefully and collaboratively with colleagues from across the spectrum. There's no part of the government, really, that isn't touched by the set of issues around artificial intelligence. So, we're going to work carefully through that across the government.

SARA: Is this kind of legislation, is it something that you can guarantee will be achieved in this term of government?

AYRES: Well, the framework that we take to this will take time to get it right. The process of how we regulate harms - my view is that there are, yes, of course, there may be a requirement to change our laws and we're working carefully through that. But secondly, it's about lifting capability, working across government to make sure that our regulators, whether that's in dealing with the potential harms in financial products and scams, for example, making sure that our regulators across the financial system have got the capability and are engaged in making sure that we're protecting Australians from potential harms.

SARA: In terms of an act itself, Ed Husic, the previous Minister, led a two-year consultation on Australia's AI regulation and hasn't yet delivered anything enforceable. What makes you think that you can deliver on this issue?

AYRES: Well, I've just got my feet under the desk working carefully with industry, talking very broadly across the tech sector, but also across Australian industry and with civil society about making sure that we get an Australian solution here to managing risks and harms. But as I said earlier in the week, my starting point is that this is an enormous opportunity for Australia. The scale of potential investment and Australia's advantage - take data centres for example, our advantage in energy terms being a stable, secure country with proximity to the largest, fastest growing region of the world in human history. Our geography and our skilled and capable people give us enormous advantages.

We are a top shelf destination for data centre and digital infrastructure investment in particular because of our future clean energy advantage. And I want to make sure that we secure a beachhead in the global system. That means Australia is not just at the bottom end of other people's supply chains, of increasingly concentrated ownership of technologies, but that we are shaping the future for Australia. That we are a maker of digital technology, not just a taker of digital technology.

SARA: You're listening to Radio National Breakfast. Tim Ayres, the Minister for Industry, Innovation and Science is my guest, talking about moves to put together legislation when it comes to the regulation of artificial intelligence. This week you released new data showing that more Australian businesses are using artificial intelligence to power their operations and enhance their productivity. Why shouldn't human workers be concerned by that?

AYRES: Well, I make two observations about that. We're making progress, but uneven progress as a country in terms of artificial intelligence adoption. But that's true of the last wave of technology, too. Our firms are still engaging with digital technology adoption. So, making sure that we're, in a systematic way, working through the economy, that firms are having the opportunity and understand the opportunity to adopt new technology. As I said earlier this week, making sure that workers also have a voice in that process is really important.

This is a whole-of-nation endeavour and that means making sure that unions and workers, employers and their organisations, the business and research community, civil society, are all at the table discussing working through these issues and we've got frameworks for managing them in workplaces is really important. There are wildly different assessments of the impact of artificial intelligence in terms of the labour market. I know from my perspective that the one thing that would be really disruptive for Australian workplaces is if we don't engage with the opportunity and fall behind in relative terms on digital adoption. That's what guarantees going backwards. So, we've got to thoughtfully lean into the opportunity.

SARA: Minister, on a separate issue, the UK has been temporarily spared from Donald Trump's 50 per cent steel and aluminium tariffs. Australia has so far failed to secure a carve out – is there any progress on that front?

AYRES: Well, I think the new tariffs began on Wednesday. Today's Friday. We will be as we have been, whether it's in terms of the trade relationship with the United States or impediments put in front of Australian trade in the last term from China. We will be working through the bilateral implications of this very carefully and very energetically with our US counterparts. If there was any real reciprocal nature to these tariff arrangements, the tariff rate would be zero. It is not the act of a friend, as my colleague Don Farrell has said, to impose these tariffs. The proper tax for Australian products going into the United States should be zero.

We'll attend to that bilateral discussion, but of course, much of my focus is on the impact of global uncertainty and trade disruption in terms of the second round and knock on effects for Australian exporters and Australian markets. And making sure that we build more economic resilience in the Australian economy, more diversification and that for me largely sits around our Future Made in Australia agenda, the largest pro manufacturing package in Australia history. So, we'll get stuck in on the bilateral relationship. I'm very keen to attend to economic diversification and building Australia's economic resilience.

SARA: Tim Ayres, thank you for your time on Breakfast this morning.

AYRES: Thanks, Sally.

SARA: Tim Ayres is the Minister for Industry, Innovation and Science and Senator for New South Wales.

ENDS.